Shulk 101

Greninja

Community Rating:
-0.5 (Slight Disadvantage)

Professional Rating:
0 (Even)

Neutral

  • Speed or Jump Art.
    • Vanilla – Can help without advantages or disadvantages, but can also set up a strong MALLC game.
    • Use mobility Arts (#1 Speed and #2 Jump) to get through Greninja’s Water Shurikens and high speed mobility. If Greninja adapts, stay grounded and shield against the Water Shurikens.
      • Try walking a lot in Speed Art.
      • Try Jump Art Fair cross-ups against Greninja’s shield.
    • Without Shulk’s mobility Arts, Greninja can easily run away to throw Water Shurikens, especially against Shield Art. Greninja can also Uthrow Shield Art Shulk for more combos.
      • Shield Art is great against Water Shuriken spam.
      • However, Shield Art can stop Greninja’s footstool combos until 90%
    • Buster Art – Shulk’s throws are less effective if a smart Greninja uses Shadow Sneak Hitsun Cancel (SSHC; see Other Notes) due to its % range being wider than any Art. Even Dthrow → Dtilt, which is “effective” as a true combo from 3%-32%, may not work.
      • Spacing at mid-range can work without Greninja using Water Shurikens.
      • FF Nair → Ftilt works on Greninja (43-90%).
      • FF Nair → Fsmash works on Greninja (55-115%).
      • Shulk’s Buster Art jab combos is safe on Greninja starting at 10%. Like Captain Falcon, Greninja can dash grab if it DIs up during the Jab combo.
        • If Shulk delays Jab 2, his kick whiffs just above Greninja’s head. However, Shulk’s little pseudo “chain-jab-walk” can work against Greninja because when Greninja lands, it crouches beneath Jab 2. Shulk has to be up close with the right timing to jab walk.
  • Greninja’s greatest strength is its overall mobility, having its walking, dashing, air speeds, and jumps among the top 10 respectively. This allows Greninja to easily run away and play at a distance. Greninja also has very good stage control, amazing combos (should they link), and advanced setups in order pin down Shulk. Due to this, treat this tricky and slippery character like a mini Sheik/Fox/Zero Suit Samus.
    • A good Greninja will not approach because its approach game is not good. Instead, Greninja gives off an illusion of approaching by staying just out of Shulk’s zone, then punish as it excels in this (like a ninja). Greninja’s neutral game is about leading to the punish game, waiting for Shulk to overextend and do something unsafe so that Greninja’s overall mobility can punish Shulk.
      • Greninja needs patience and careful planning since it lacks quick moves; most actions Greninja does have medium to large commitment. A Greninja player who is aggressive and/or approaches too much will allow Shulk to punish back accordingly.
    • Despite its great mobility, its frame data is a bit mediocre. Some of its attacks have a bit of startups and end lags. Greninja does not always want to play the rushdown game, but rather footsies, hit-and-run, and bait-and-punish.
      • Contrary to popular belief, Greninja’s frame data is not fast enough to be an extremely combo-heavy character. Greninja players in combos montage do take risks against uninformed opponents (e.g. raw Nairs, dash attacks, or grabs).
      • As a heavy momentum-based character, Greninja will know when to back off to analyze Shulk’s next habit.
    • Do not press too many buttons, and be very patient.
      • A patient Greninja has extremely defensive baiting options. Run forward → shield a lot, especially against Water Shurikens (except fully charged ones).
      • Try playing at FH height.
    • This is a very mental MU where it forces the Shulk player to think and plan ahead of the interaction when he approaches Greninja. Winning the neutral and getting stage control might be one of the trickier things in this MU.
      • Shulk should have a strong MALLC game and shielding game while keeping stage control in order to make his approaches dangerous. Stage control is very important to avoid Greninja’s Hydro Pump gimp.
      • Being unpredictable may help.
  • Due to Greninja’s short stature (especially when it crawls), it is difficult to hit it with Shulk’s Bair unless it rolls into Shulk. Still, this is a great kill option in a small stage+Smash Art+Rage.
    • Buster Bair spacing is a bit less effective.
    • Try Back Nair.
  • Greninja’s grounded game is where it’ll start most of its setups.
    • Since Greninja relies on forcing the opponent to approach, Greninja can walk or crawl to space its aerials (e.g. Fair or Bair) when Water Shurikens are not needed.
    • Watch out for Dtilt, Utilt and Dash Attack. They can lead into aerials such as RAR Bair or Fair to combo/kill.
      • SH Back Nair can hit against Greninja’s Dash Attack.
      • Even if Greninja whiffs its Dash Attack, it can use its Jabs before Shulk could attack back.
    • Use CQC attacks (Jabs, Grabs, or spaced Dtilts), though note that Greninja’s Jab 1 is faster than Shulk’s Jab 1. Its Jab 1 is considered a “get off me” option.
      • SDI up against Greninja’s rapid jabs.
      • Greninja can also use Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel at low % to escape Shulk’s jabs and hit him back.
  • Greninja has a slow grab game, with the exception of its dash grab. If Greninja tries to grab Shulk’s approaching Nair, Shulk can either spot dodge or hold jab.
    • Frame Data:
      • Dash Grab: F9-10; FAF 38.
      • Standing Grab: F11-12; FAF 29.
      • Pivot Grab: F15-16; FAF 37.
    • Shulk can also use MALLC against Greninja’s standing grab (or Jab 1) and hit/kill.
    • Still, Shulk should avoid getting grabbed, especially at high %. Avoid unsafe aerials. Watch out for dash grab as it is its quickest grab and has great range.
    • Greninja’s pivot grab also has great range.
  • The Water Shurikens are one of the best long range tools in the game (uncharged ones reaching halfway of FD; fully charged ones almost reaching halfway of FD). Greninja would usually SH and shoot Water Shurikens from a distance to be defensive, space a lot and bait an approach, especially since Shulk is a tall character. If Greninja finds an opening (or feels comfortable to close the gap), it will blitz in (usually with a dash grab or a Dash Attack). Greninja can also B-Reverse or Wavebounce.
    • It is fine if Greninja tries to space Shulk out as long as Shulk does not overcommit in the wrong situation. Eventually, Shulk’s strong shielding game and spacing game can deal with Greninja’s projectiles while keeping a passive offensive/defensive pressure.
    • If Shulk SHs too much, Greninja can interrupt Shulk’s SH approaches. Greninja can also use its Water Shuriken against just before Shulk lands. Avoid throwing out smash attacks and try staying grounded while shielding a lot.
      • If Greninja is too high in the air while charging a Water Shuriken, Shulk can use Speed Art running Usmash to hit/kill.
    • To deal with it:
      • Uncharged Water Shurikens:
        • Run up and (perfect) shield a lot, but watch out for dash grab.
          • With Speed Art, quickly analyze Greninja’s next action once Shulk gets into Greninja’s comfort zone (e.g. spot dodge, shield, roll away, attack, grab, jump, etc0>
        • Shulk’s aerials, esepcially Nair, can stop it, but Shulk has to be quick or else Greninja can shield it time.
        • Against Water Shurikens spam, use Vision Slide.
        • Shulk can roll away to dodge it.
        • He can also stand back away from the Water Shuriken range, especially if Shulk has the lead.
      • Fully charged Water Shurikens (it hits multiple times and can become a kill move/setup):
        • If Shulk has Jump or Speed Art, it is possible for Shulk to jump over a charged Water Shuriken and use Nair, Fair or grab. (Smash Art) Front Bair can also work to kill early.
          • Back Slash over charged Water Shurikens, but Shulk has to be quick.
        • Shield it fully until it passes away. However, Greninja can run forward and attack Shulk even more (low % for more combos or go for the kill at high %).
        • Vision (not Forward).
  • Pay attention to the ground as a traveling round shadow indicates that Greninja will use Shadow Sneak. Beware that this is one of Greninja’s good kill moves, especially if Greninja instantly uses it next to Shulk.
    • Shulk can bait the Shadow Sneak attack, dodge it, and grab Greninja in Speed Art. He can also shield the attack and punish back like Air Slash OoS.
    • Beware that Shadow Sneak can be used as an OoS, especially against Shulk’s laggy attacks. However, Greninja has to activate Shadow Sneak on the ground, shield (while holding the stick the same direction as Greninja is moving), and then press B.
  • Greninja’s Substitute (which can go in any diagonal directions) has noticeable end lag and has no invincibility frames when counter-attacking. However, it has a lot of disjoint and is a powerful kill move, especially if Greninja aims upwards.
    • Counters: 8-29 (Intangible 8-19); FAF 65.
      • FAF is 5 frames faster than Shulk’s (FAF 70) and 15 frames faster than Lucarios (FAF 80)
    • Substitute Attacks (all directions): 41-65 (Intangible 1-37); FAF 85.
    • Should Shulk used an attack with low cooldown, it is easy to shield the counterattack. Substitute is also very punishable on whiff.
    • If Shulk uses Fsmash against it, it can still connect to the second hit.
  • Regarding Greninja’s tilt attacks:
    • Dtilt: Links into a variety of attacks. A kill setup into Usmash or Fair.
    • Utilt: Can combo into Usmash at early % and later can combo into Uair for longer than Uthrow. The tongue at the apex of the arc is decent and has deceptive range.
      • Can also be used as an OoS option, but the tongue’s hitbox starts from behind. The tongue hitting in front of Greninja may not work since it suddenly loses its hitbox. But since Shulk is a tall character, it can connect when up close.
      • Shulk should not spot dodge this close because Greninja can use another Utilt.
      • Can be PP (Perfect Pivots).
    • Ftilt: The least useful tilt compared to other two tilts. Used for poking or jab resets. It can also has a small chance of tripping Shulk.
  • Regarding Greninja’s smash attacks:
    • Fsmash: F13-15; FAF 50.
      • The sword does not hit right in front of Greninja, but a short distance away.
      • Can combo after Nair at low %.
      • If Shulk techs away, Greninja can Fsmash.
    • Usmash 1: F12-17 (hit 1), 18 (hit 2 onwards), 19-20, 21; FAF 52.
      • Its best smash attack and one of its best kill moves with the apex dealing the most damage. Usually used after a combo or punishing Shulk’s landings.
      • Can hit Shulk at the side.
      • Shulk’s Nair can trade against it and possibly make it whiffs Usmash’s sweetspot kill.
      • Shulk’s Dair can hit against it.
    • Dsmash: F16-18; FAF 55.
      • Has a bit more range than Usmash, and deals more base damage, but it has less KO power vertically.
      • If Shulk rolls too much or aid dodges onto the ground, Greninja can use this.
      • Can hit below the ledge.
      • If Shulk shields it, he can Fsmash to hit/kill.
    • Try punishing Greninja’s whiffed smash attacks.
  • Greninja’s air game is similar to Shulk’s. Greninja has a bit of a startup, except for Bair and Uair. Its landing options used for zoning or combo starters. Shulk can still zone Greninja well with patient spacing aerials (especially if Greninja uses Nair too much), but he should not hold forward too much.
    • Spacing is important because it will also avoid Greninja’s tricky setups since Greninja has to be very close to pull it off.
  • Its Nair has super short range and is active for F12-16, but is one of Greninja’s best combo starters. Greninja uses the sweetspot of Nair (closest to Greninja) as a combo starter at early % (or kill at higher %), and the sourspot (outside of the water) of Nair as a combo / kill setup at late %. Before that, Greninja would throw Water Shurikens to bait Shulk’s approach.
    • Shulk (30-58%): Sweetspot Nair (1st hit) → Usmash.
    • Shulk (67-107%): Sourspot Nair (Late hit) → Usmash.
    • Since Nair has large endlag, try spacing against it. Avoid jumping too close to Greninja.
    • Greninja can SH FF Nair for a quick hit, so watch out for that.
  • Shulk’s Fair is faster than Greninja’s Fair (F16-17; FAF 55; 15 frames of landing lag). However, Greninja’s Fair is a great kill move and can A-Cancel easily with soft landing (2 frames) due to its AC windows being 1-12, 40>. Watch out when Greninja is about to land on the ground as Greninja can bait out.
    • Greninja’s Fair is also safe on shield if spaced.
    • Requires FH to AC. If Greninja SH and suffers landing lag, try Air Slash OoS.
    • A whiffed Fair will allow Shulk to use Nair if Greninja is above him.
  • Its Bair is very quick (F5, 8, 13-16, 13 frames of landing lag, AC 1-3, 35>). It is used for RAR Bair to quickly interrupt Shulk and his attacks.
    • At low %, Greninja’s SH Bair → Ftilt lock. Tech it.
  • Greninja’s Uair is arguably its best aerial, especially in terms of juggling. The first few hits spike, and the last one launches. Skilled Greninja players can FF in order to spike and send Shulk to the ground, setting up its advanced combos, smash attack kills, and potentially bouncing at higher %.
    • If the bounce is unteched, it is a true combo.
    • Its Uair is great at catching jumps, pressure opponents on platforms, and is a kill aerial.
  • Greninja’s Dair against Shulk will bounce Greninja up, even against shield. Using it in the neutral is very risky since it leaves Greninja wide open if it lands on the ground. It is best used only if Greninja can get a guarantee hit, leading into more combos.
    • Using Vision can miss Greninja and leave Shulk open, but a Forward Vision can hit, instead.
      • Shulk can also shield the first Dair, then Utilts against more Dairs.
    • Can setup a footstool.
  • Greninja has strong footstool combos, but they are even more dangerous since Shulk is at the perfect weight for Greninja’s advanced combos.
    • Its sweetspot Nair can lead into one.
    • Against Dair (as it is mostly used in its footstool combos), Shulk can tech either left or right to avoid the footstool combo entirely.
    • Shulk cannot tech out Greninja’s Dair until 58%.
    • However, Greninja cannot do its footstool setups on Shield Art until 90%.
  • Since shielding is required in this MU, use Air Slash OoS, preferably at the center of the stage. Try to use it against against Greninja’s attacks like unsafe/approaching Fair, its Bair’s landing lag, Jab 2, Ftilt, etc.
    • Warning: If it is used at the ledge, Greninja can use Hydro Pump to push Shulk out of the stage.
  • If Greninja becomes predictable and rolls forward too much, try Back Slash. It has a 6 frame window.

Advantage

  • When Greninja is in the Disadvantage state, keep pressuring Greninja and prevent it from landing back on stage.
    • Juggle Greninja as it is a fast faller; use Utilts to frame trap Greninja’s air dodge after it uses its DJ. Greninja’s best options, when in the air or offstage, are his defensive options (e.g. its great DJ or air dodging with its small stature).
      • Try Smash Art Air Slash against Greninja’s landings to kill.
    • Visualize the Dair zone. Punish Greninja’s whiffed Dair (hitting the ground) as it has a huge end lag. If Greninja bounces off Shulk’s shield, only Shulk’s Jump Art can catch Greninja.
      • In Jump Art, if Greninja (ex: 41%) uses Dair, shield it, then FH Fair → DJ Fair → Air Slash (ex: Shulk 105% with rage) to kill.
    • Sometimes, Greninja would use a Water Shuriken to stall in the air.
  • Edgeguard carefully with Fair or Nair. Having Jump Art makes Shulk safer to recover back should he fail to edgeguard Greninja. Save your DJ wisely.
    • Sometimes, Greninja would throw out Water Shurikens to air stall. If Shulk notices this habit, he can jump forward and use Fair. His aerials can still hit through the Water Shurikens.
    • If Greninja’s aerial drift significantly slows down, it is going to use Shadow Sneak. Greninja would not use it early, but rather when it is level with the stage. This is used before its Hydro Pump to massively increase the distance Greninja can recover.
      • At the ledge, use Smash Art Vision against Shadow Sneak, especially if Greninja has this habit.
    • Beware of using Fair against Greninja’s Substitute. Due to Fair’s FAF 42, Shulk can be killed easily if Greninja counter-attacks (either from left to right or to spike Shulk). Bait it out or have Shulk go down after Fair to avoid the attack.
      • Greninja’s Bair is also a threat should Shulk miss his attack. The worst possibility is that Bair can catch Shulk’s DJ, allowing Greninja to gimp him with Hydro Pump.
    • Its Uair can clip through the ledge to hit Shulk. Shield it.
    • Try hitting the Hydro Pump recovery after it is released. Note that it is possible to 2-Frame with Fair or angled down Fsmash.
      • Recovering from below to straight up the ledge? Stage spike with Fair or Bair (or maybe Nair). Air Slash can work to stage spike, but hold down so that Shulk does not snap the ledge.
        • An example to stage spike Greninja with Bair is to condition Greninja to DJ and air dodge close to the ledge. Both players would pass each other as Shulk can use Bair.
        • Greninja can use the L technique, but Shulk can still attack with his aerials.
        • Before that, if Shulk edgeguards this deep and misses, Greninja will use Hydro Pump to recover to the ledge and push Shulk’s Air Slash recovery away. Shulk should save his DJ (and having Jump Art helps a lot).
      • Recovering diagonally? Swat with aerials or reverse Air Slash.
        • Recovering in an “L” technique (any recovery shaped like an L)? This one is incredibly safe, has good recovery range, but more difficult to use.
      • Recovering back on stage instead of the ledge? Have mobility Arts to catch up and punish Greninja. Try Speed Art smash attacks, Dash Attack, or Air Slash. With Smash Art, killing becomes more easier.
        • Back Slash can work, though Shulk must predict where Greninja will land. Greninja’s Hydro Pump recovery points its back to the opposite side.
        • Intercepting in front of Greninja with Dair can also work, even killing Greninja.
  • Greninja can wall cling for 4-5 seconds in order to mess up Shulk’s edgeguards.
    • Three viable possibilities can happen:
      • 1. Wall jump and still have its DJ.
      • 2. Jump off the wall. Use its DJ while clinging, but jumps higher vertically.
      • 3. Drop off the wall (pressing down).
    • Greninja can attack off the wall (such as Bair against Shulk’s laggy edgeguared attempts), but it is not worth it due to its laggy aerials.
  • With Greninja being a fast character, it is better for a patient Shulk to space himself at the ledge rather than being at the very edge. Otherwise, Greninja has a much easier time to get back on stage, and Shulk will lose the Advantage state. Wait for Greninja to press the button, then punish.
    • Shulk’s Usmash may not work due to Greninja’s high fall speed. Greninja will drop to the floor and put up its shield, thus perfect shielding the 2nd hit of Usmash. If this happens, Greninja can punish easily with a smash attack.
      • Instead, try Smash Art Dthrow, Bthrow, or SH front Bair. Note that Greninja’s ledge getup is good.
    • Greninja’s ledge jump is higher than most characters, and Shulk’s Utilt cannot reach if he does not predict correctly. Try to catch Greninja with FH Fair.
    • Edgeguard with Air Slash. Rage Jump Art can connect.
    • If Greninja does a ledge roll, try punishing it (Back Slash, Speed Art dash/pivot grab, etc).

Disadvantage

  • Greninja can juggle Shulk really well due to its overall high mobility. Landing will be more difficult for Shulk against Greninja’s Uair and Usmash. Switch to mobility Arts and avoid pressing too many buttons (unsafe aerials or air dodging) in order to reset the neutral. Using an aggressive option is usually not worth it due to Shulk having limited options.
    • Improper landing with Jump Art will lead into more damage.
    • Back Slash should never be used as Greninja will use Hydro Pump to gimp.
  • Its Uthrow is Greninja’s best throw. It can combo into a lot of things (mostly Uairs, especially at low %) and is Greninja’s only kill throw. Greninja can also use aerial Shadow Sneak to potentially kill Shulk.
    • Having Smash Art is a bit safe (around +100%) since that is Greninja’s only kill throw.
    • It is actually possible for Shulk to die against Uthrow → Hydro Pump at very high %. Greninja has to read Shulk’s DI to send Shulk over the top.
  • Greninja’s KO confirms:
    • Jab 1 & 2 → Fsmash.
    • Uthrow → Uair.
    • Uthrow → air dodge read → Shadow Sneak.
      • Try to jump and air dodge away.
    • Dthrow → Fair.
    • FF Uair → Dsmash.
    • Dtilt → Fair/Usmash (true combo with momentum).
      • DI away.
    • Dtilt → air dodge read → Dsmash at the ledge.
    • Nair.
  • Against Uair, SDI away, or up and away. If Greninja is fast falling, SDI up.
    • In Shield Art, SDI down?
    • Even if Shulk air dodges against Uair, Greninja can use Uair again to frame trap Shulk and setup more combos. Avoid air dodging too much.
    • Aerial Vision or Fair (frame 18; bottom of Shulk’s feet) can hit Uair.
  • When edgeguarding Shulk, Greninja can throw Water Shurikens, though Shulk can air dodge through them, even a fully charged one. Note that fully charged Water Shurikens will kill Shulk very early.
    • Fthrow → Water Shurikens can possibly catch Shulk’s DJ if the Shulk player mashes it mindlessly.
    • Greninja can also use Shadow Sneak for a quick edgeguard kill, especially since the shadow cannot be detected.
  • Drop down Hydro Pump (like Mario’s FLUDD) can gimp Air Slash recovery should Shulk mis-spaces. Shulk’s DJ is vital for his survival, and a good Greninja will try to intercept Shulk’s DJ. Recovering with Air Slash should be Shulk’s last resort.
    • Shulk should recover low and go slightly past the bottom ledge, since the stage stops the water from actually making contact, and snap to the ledge with the second Air Slash. Against Hydro Pump (and to extension Mario’s FLUDD) gimp, there are three possibilities:
      • 1. With Jump Art, Air Slash at max range to the ledge in order to snap the ledge with the second input.
      • 2. Use an aerial while using DJ towards the ledge, and utilize the aerial’s FAF so that Shulk can buffer inputting Air Slash’s 1st hit to instantly snap the ledge.
      • 3. Delay the Air Slash from recovering low as much as possible. Jump Art increases the vertical height to both hits of Air Slash.
    • Alternatively, Greninja can use Bair to edgeguard. If it connects, it may force Shulk to use his DJ, making the Hydro Pump gimp even more dangerous. Its Bair can also stage spike easily, but Shulk’s spaced Air Slash can beat Bair. Finally, it may clip Shulk’s Air Slash if he misspaces to the ledge.
      • Dair is also a rare possibility to spike or stage spike Shulk’s Air Slash. There is a huge risk that Greninja can SD, but FH Dair is enough for Greninja to recover back if the stage below is deep (e.g. Battlefield).
  • While Shulk is hanging onto the ledge:
    • It is usually possible to avoid the Water Shurikens depending on its timing. If Greninja charges a Water Shuriken at the right time, Shulk should wait for it to pass near the ledge, then do a neutral getup. But even if it misses, Greninja is fast enough to close in the gap and punish Shulk.
      • Never do a ledge roll, especially at high %. A fully charged Water Shuriken can kill Shulk.
        • If Shulk does a ledge roll, Greninja can use a pivot grab.
    • Greninja’s Dsmash can hit Shulk grabbing the ledge (if he loses his ledge invincibility).
      • Greninja can also ledge trump → Bair. Even with just a ledge trump, Greninja can still setup its Dsmash or Hydro Pump gimp.
    • Greninja can try to kill with SH Fair or turnaround Fsmash.

Other Notes

  • Greninja’s Shadow Sneak Hitstun Cancel (SSHC) allows it to use Shadow Sneak to cancel its hitstun. It can use this tech on anything that does not put it into tumble animation. However, Grenina must be smart due to Shadow Sneak’s high end lag. Here are the % where SSHC stops working for Shulk’s throws (credit to Lawliet626):
Monado Arts Fthrow Bthrow Uthrow Dthrow % Range
Vanilla/Jump 3% N/A 9% 0% 0-9%
Speed 5% N/A 10% N/A 5-10%
Shield 7% N/A 11% N/A 7-11%
Buster 73% 55% 115% 31% 55-115%
Smash N/A. Have fun with your kill throws!
  • Platform Shadow Sneak: When Greninja releases level to a platform, it releases differently in the air. Greninja gets pulled to the left; facing right pulls Greninja next to Greninja starting direction, left pushes Greninja back.
    • This can also be used to edgeguard.
  • Purge is not effective since a well-informed Greninja DIing away will always save Greninja. Shulk has to be frame-perfect in every case; Greninja can just jump out and not worry about the frame perfect "DJ + AD". The Purge % is very specific on Greninja.
  • Can wall jump, wall cling, and crawl.
    • Greninja can wall cling for 4-5 seconds
  • Air Acceleration: 0.07 [18-28th]
  • Air Dodges: Intangible 2-26; FAF 32 [11-17th]
  • Air Speed: 0.08 [8th]
  • Fall Speed: 1.85 [3rd]
  • Fast Fall Speed: 2.96 [4th]
  • Ledge Attack: 22-24 (Intangible 1-19); FAF 56 [37-39th]
  • Ledge Getup: Intangible 1-31; FAF 33 [2-9th]
  • Ledge Roll: Intangible 1-29; FAF 50 [18-21th]
  • Roll (Backwards): Intangible 4-14; FAF 33 [53rd]
  • Roll (Forwards): Intangible 4-14; FAF 30 [27th]
  • Run Speed: 2.08 [6th]
  • Spot Dodge: Intangible 2-16; FAF 26 [11-17th]
  • Walk Speed: 1.14 [4th]
  • Weight: 94 [Middleweight 33-36th]
    • Same weight as Sonic, Ness, and Lucas.
  • Shulk's notable kill options:
    • Usmash (Grounded effect into second hit): +74% with Smash Art (on FD at starting point).
      • Usmash (the blade): +81% with Smash Art (on FD at starting point). Note: Not recommended to use if Greninja knows it fcan shield the second hit of Usmash.
    • Bair (sweetspot): +89% with Smash Art (on FD at starting point).
    • Air Slash with both hits against grounded Greninja: +100% with Smash Art (on FD at starting point).

Summary

  • Neutral/Advantage
    • Use mobility Arts to catch up to Greninja. Treat Greninja like a mini Sheik/Fox/Zero Suit Samus.
      • Walk a lot.
      • Get the lead, then stay back to force Greninja to approach.
      • Avoid getting hit to minimize Greninja’s combos.
    • Play either grounded or FH height.
    • Do not press too many buttons or overcommit. Think ahead, play patiently and analyze Greninja’s habits once both characters are close. Shield a lot against uncharged Water Shurikens or wall them out with aerials.
      • Run forward → shield a lot, especially in Speed Art.
    • Have a strong MALLC game, spacing and stage control to avoid the Hydro Pump gimp game.
      • Bair spacing will be difficult against Greninja’s short stature (especially if it crawls), but it is still a great kill option. It is best used against Greninja in the air or ir it rolls into Shulk.
      • Zone Greninja out with aerials, especially if Shulk has the lead.
      • Juggle with Utilts, especially when Greninja loses its DJ.
      • Though Greninja’s grab game is slow, its dash grab is not while having having good range.
      • Watch out for Greninja’s tilts, Dash Attack, and dash grab. If Shulk whiffs an attack or suffers landing lag, Greninja will most likely go for a dash grab.
  • Edgeguarding
    • When edeguarding, conserve Shulk’s DJ.
    • Water Shurikens
      • Shield it.
      • Jump forward and Fair, especially if Greninja is diagonally above Shulk. His aerials can go through uncharged Water Shurikens.
    • Shadow Sneak
      • Will use it when Greninja’s aerial speed significantly slows down.
      • If Greninja is about to recover/hit the ledge, use Smash Art Vision.
    • Hydro Pump
      • Recovering low? Stage spike Greninja with Fair or Bair.
      • Bait its DJ and air dodge, then use Bair.
      • Recovering to the side (or to a side platform)? Use aerials or reverse Air Slash.
      • Recovering to the center stage? Use Dair to intercept, Speed Art Usmash, Smash Art Dash Attack/Air Slash, grabs, etc.
    • Substitute
      • Bait it out or quickly descend down to avoid the counterattack.
  • Disadvantage
    • Avoid air dodging too much since Greninja can frame trap with Uairs.
      • Do not press too many buttons when trying to land to reset the neutral.
    • Shulk’s Usmash may not work if Greninja shields the second hit up close.
    • DI behind Greninja’s Uthrow kill (it’s a 93 degree angle throw).
    • Watch out for Greninja’s Bair. It can catch Shulk’s DJ or stage spike him.
    • Use DJ wisely. Use Air Slash as a last resort against Hydro Pump and snap the ledge
      • 1. Max range spacing into second input.
      • 2. Aerial to the ledge → Air Slash 1st input.
      • 3. Delay Air Slash’s inputs as much as possible.

Greninja (94)-

  • Down Throw (C)
    • Honestly isn't confirmed since it is a while before you can act out of it but you can follow up with a f tilt, f smash, dash attack, d tilt, or fair depending on percent, however you can easily air dodge or jump out of it. Jump is more recommended since air dodges can be punished with up smash. DI away is best.
  • Up Throw (C)
    • Can be followed up with an up smash if an air dodge is read or an up air so DI up and jump away.
  • Forward Throw (C)
    • For this one DI doesn't matter too much, I would focus on teching the landing or jumping away because since you can get punished if your get up option is read. Also mix up your techs (either roll forward, back, or in place) so you don't get read on that either. DI away if you want. At low percent it doesn't even launch you hard enough that you will need a tech so don't worry about it. Similar to Fox/Falco's f throw.
  • Up Throw (K)
    • Kills at 165% (DI back is slightly better than DI forward since this sends at a 93 degree angle)

 

  • DI Dilt-t away to make true F-air or U-smash following into a 50/50 instead


Information from this guide on Smashboards

Best Stages:

  • Town & City
    • One of Greninja’s best stage, if not its best stage.
      • Lots of space for Greninja to run around. Greninja can spam Water Shurikens more easily, especially when it becomes FD.
      • Platforms do not get in Greninja’s way, especially since the stage transforms into FD.
        • However the platforms in the City portion can get in the way of Usmash, thought that’s manageable.
      • Greninja’s juggling game is stronger.
      • Greninja’s Uair, Usmash, and Uthrow kills earlier, especially if it and Shulk are standing on the platform.
        • Shadow Sneak can kill early, especially if Shulk is in the air and at the side.
    • Can wall jump.
    • Greninja’s Bair can stage spike more effectively.
    • The side platform is another Hydro Pump recovery option for Greninja.
  • Final Destination
    • One of Greninja’s best stage.
      • More space for Greninja to run around, especially throwing out more Water Shurikens to space Shulk out (unless he has mobility Arts).
      • Greninja’s juggling game is stronger.
      • Without platforms, Greninja can perform combos much easier than other stages.
    • Can wall jump.
    • Shadow Sneak is a bit difficult to spot the shadow, especially on the right side.
  • Dream Land 64
    • Can wall jump and wall cling.
    • Greninja’s Uair, Usmash, and Uthrow kills a bit earlier. They kill even earlier if Greninja and Shulk are at the top middle platform.
    • Platforms can interfere with Greninja’s footstool combos, combos, and pressure.
    • Greninja’s Utilt cannot reach the side platforms from below, though its Usmash still works. Oddly, sweetspot Usmash to kill does not work all the time unless Shulk is about to land.

Worst Stages:

  • Battlefield
    • One of Greninja’s worst stage
      • Greninja’s Utilt and Usmash can hit the side platforms from below. Oddly, sweetspot Usmash to kill does not work all the time unless Shulk is about to land.
      • Platforms might interfere with Greninja’s footstool combos, combos, and pressure.
        • They save Shulk from Greninja’s Uthrow → Uair juggles, and Uair spiking is not effective.
        • Platform layout hinders Greninja when running around.
        • However, Greninja’s Platform Shadow Sneak is available on platforms.
        • Greninja can still pressure Shulk on the platform with aerials.
        • Greninja can use the platforms to create “traps” more easily such as Uthrow at low %, or Dtilt and Dthrow at higher %.
      • Greninja’s Uair, Usmash, and Uthrow kills later (unless Greninja and Shulk are at the top middle platform).
    • Shulk can maneuver around the Water Shurikens more easily.
    • If Greninja edgeguards with FH Dair, it can recover back, even if it misses Shulk.
  • Lylat Cruise
    • One of Greninja’s worst stage
    • The stage tilts can interrupt the Water Shurikens, especially fully charged ones.
    • Greninja’s Utilt and Usmash can hit the side platforms from below. Its sweetspot Usmash below the platforms still may not work, even with the tilting to help Greninja.
    • Recoveries can be bad on both characters due to the stage tilts.
    • Shadow Sneak on the ground will not make Greninja reappear on the ground. It’ll go fully horizontally as if Greninja was in the air. Shadow Sneak does not really stop at the ledge like normal.
      • Shadow Sneak can potentially glitch Greninja into the middle of the stage to fall through it.
    • Greninja’s Platform Shadow Sneak is available on platforms, especially to edgeguard.
  • Smashville
    • A neutral stage for Greninja.
    • Can wall jump.
    • Smaller stage limits Greninja’s mobility, and Shulk can kill early with Smash Art, especially his front Bair and Air Slash OoS.
    • The moving platform can get in Greninja’s way because it is not stationary. Shulk standing on the platform can be safe from Greninja if Shulk plays safe.
      • If Shulk rolls forward, Greninja can catch him with aerials.
      • Greninja can use the moving platform as another option to recover.
      • Greninja can still kill early if the two are standing on the moving platform.
    • Greninja’s Uthrow kills after +170%.
    • Shulk’s mobility Arts Nair → Fair → Fair can kill.

Other Stages:

  • Omegas (Same notes as FD unless otherwise)
    • Wily’s Castle
      • Can wall jump and wall cling.
        • With the walls, if Greninja bounces off the wall with Hydro Pump, it can still drift to the wall, wall cling, and then jump up to grab the ledge.
    • Suzaku Castle
    • Midgar
  • Duck Hunt
    • Can wall jump and wall cling.
      • When Greninja uses an angled Hydro Pump to recover to the ledge, Greninja might bounce off the wall and lose a stock.
      • With the walls, if Greninja bounces off the wall with Hydro Pump, it can still drift to the wall, wall cling, and then jump up to grab the ledge.
    • More space for Greninja to run around.
    • The ducks allow Greninja to stall with Dair.
    • 2D nature of the stage allows Greninja to hit with Fsmash up close.
    • Hard to detect Shadow Sneak on the ground. Can still be a decent mix up in the neutral.
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Last updated by TrueSapphire on May 2nd, 2017 at 08:19 PM